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    Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

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    redcricket077

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  redcricket077 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:04 pm

    Quite an interesting article, I didn't know some schools thought kids how to shoot
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    Bacara

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Bacara on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:07 pm

    LOL 2120, I was listening to that all last week on the radio news I must say though, I hope it doesn't get passed, because that would lead to so many more murders in my area... and I don't want to be murdered
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    -mirsho

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  -mirsho on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:20 pm

    2120 wrote:
    -mirsho wrote:Wow, GG for my Doomsayer.

    This law is relevant to Victoria, not NSW. This is venturing out to politics but isn't the newly-elected State government in NSW allying with the Shooters party?

    Did a bit of research.. haha look at this
    http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/push-for-guns-in-schools-20110716-1hj5q.html

    Well I'm playing conservative and will apply it to NSW anyways, just to play it safe aye. I'm already thinking of the worst for it, haha. Good read on that article though.
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    gooni

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  gooni on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:34 pm

    Troll gooni is trolling.

    This just re-enforces my stance on "dark" painted blasters.

    Just play it safe and go for the eye killing bright colours if you are set on painting your blasters. Then there could be less of a chance of some over nosey old granny/grandpa/do gooder or public safety troll spoiling your foam fun.

    Gooni.
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    PhantomSambo

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  PhantomSambo on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:27 pm

    gooni wrote:Troll gooni is trolling.

    This just re-enforces my stance on "dark" painted blasters.

    Just play it safe and go for the eye killing bright colours if you are set on painting your blasters. Then there could be less of a chance of some over nosey old granny/grandpa/do gooder or public safety troll spoiling your foam fun.

    Gooni.

    We call them moralfags where I come from
    :p
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    Koula

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Koula on Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:48 pm

    Interesting article, wonder if the other states would follow suit on it. :/ On a more amusing note, check out the original die-cast G1 Megatron transformer toy in the picture guide. Ah, that brings back fond memories of transforming him into his gun form.

    Regarding the criteria needed to deem your 'imitation firearms' as toys, it's time to show your bronyhood and slap My Little Pony stickers all over your blasters, fellas.

    Rainbow Dash Raiders, Pinky Pie Recons, Applejack Longstrikes and Fluttershy Vulcans for all.
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    Silent Scope

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Silent Scope on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:26 pm

    I am going to vehemently support this new amendment to the Firearms Act 1996 on the basis that it further promotes the hobby/sport to steer away from any negative perception by the public in the current political state we are in. And to express that notion, if I do see anyone wielding the likes in any war I happen to be in, you can expect your precious penis compensator to be smashed in pieces if you haven't already brought with you bright coloured tape to wrap around your blaster.

    This whole issue has already been discussed nearly a year ago; surprising it took this long for a state to actually do something about it.

    Excerpt:
    Australia as a country is getting more and more paranoid about guns - the strict gun laws have created a population that does not know anything about weapons, and hence is just scared of what it does not know. The last decade's focus on terrorism and the whole 'be alert but not alarmed' thing means that we face a public who is simply scared of the unknown and will lash out if it feels it's safety is in any way threatened...

    ... The majority of this is managing PERCEPTION, not what is, but WHAT PEOPLE THINK IS GOING ON. Another way of looking at it is thinking about how people from the outside view us.

    Unknown wrote:If it has colours on the stock and/or muzzle It's fine. In theory a black titan should be okay as it is not of the shape of a working firearm, add an orange tip and you are good to go.

    Further down the page there is information about what defines a toy, if it has one or more of the following characteristics it is considered a toy.

    • Material is not like that of a gun - clear/yellow

    • Coloured muzzle and/or butt

    • Is not a similar size/shape to that of a firearm.
    No.

    Conversely speaking, if the blaster in question can be interpreted as one resembling a working firearm/munition in anyway possible then it's best to assume that it will be classified as an "imitation firearm" sooner or later. This alone already plays against us as the current N-Strike and newer models that are released are already sporting the military motif in their designs. As a rule of thumb: If you feel the need to ask whether or not your blaster/toy is safe to take out in public, then you've basically answered your own question. There's no need for anyone to selfishly exploit any loophole if it can compromise the hobby/sport everyone else is enjoying.

    2120 wrote:This law is relevant to Victoria, not NSW.
    Whilst that may be true, it isn't to say that the following amendments to the Victorian legislation shouldn't play any influence on the current dynamics in other states; on the contrary it should act as a guide to both war organisers and participants to understand what is deemed "safe use" in public, and what isn't so.

    After all, this post here seems to verify and reinforce my point.

    Yes, that means that I need to put coloured tape around my ERTL RFSG to comply with ownership without permit.
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    makeitgo

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  makeitgo on Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 pm

    It seems these by-laws are becoming universal. We've (Ontario, Canada) had similar by-laws in place for some time now. It may seem like a pain now, but it's something we get over relatively easily and quickly. It just means more creativity regarding cosmetic mods. They don't have to be "my little pony with rainbows" (although that sounds like a challenge to me) but that's where different inspirations can come into play: Cars, movies, television, tagging/graffiti or just plain originality.

    I myself, as well as many others, have taken to referring to our toys of choice as "blasters" as opposed to 'guns'. It may seem small and insignificant but I believe the more people who insist on referring to them as "blasters" the less strict and frequent these by-laws will eventually become.

    It doesn't help that we "mod" them to be extremely powerful, use darts that can pierce cardboard and cause decent welts. To paint them to look 'realistic' and then refer to them as 'guns' only begs for them to be banned and/or confiscated.

    If you think we're upset, you should hear some of my paintball and airsoft friends. They're absolutely livid! Their whole thing is to look and act as realistic as possible. Clear and brightly coloured 'guns' (as they insist on calling them) are completely against their recreational hobby/sport of choice.

    At least we can make the most of it.
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    mull

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  mull on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:50 pm

    I have views slightly towards the moderate from your stance Silent Scope.

    While I do entirely agree that imitiation firearms should not have a place in or in view from a public space like parks, car parks, down the shops or even on the front yard; I do not agree that there should be a ban or a bureaucratic barrier to posess such items.

    Treat it like existing knife laws.
    Do not carry it in public for quick use, but you're entitled to acquire and use it in a closed or controlled environment without filling in a damn form.


    This is so to accommodate drama and reenacting clubs, and cosplayers (such activities are held in a closed or controlled environment anyways).
    For example, it's quite okay to have a carved bit of wood in the shape of a sword without a sharp edge and painted with metallic colours, but it must not be exposed in public space.
    In most cases, such organised events have an inspection and cloakroom/storage area to restrict access until the actual need arises (photoshoot/acting period).

    This reduces the likelihood of undesirable interactions with people and their props, when not in legitimate use in the venue.

    Fine, I like visually inspecting at costumes with the addition of combative hardware to compliment it, and this will make it harder to occur while I'm on this continent (especially when females are involved).
    Was "armed" in costume myself while working with a bunch of maids, last year... :3
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    clunk07
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  clunk07 on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:15 am

    Silent Scope wrote:I am going to vehemently support this new amendment to the Firearms Act 1996 on the basis that it further promotes the hobby/sport to steer away from any negative perception by the public in the current political state we are in. And to express that notion, if I do see anyone wielding the likes in any war I happen to be in, you can expect your precious penis compensator to be smashed in pieces if you haven't already brought with you bright coloured tape to wrap around your blaster.

    Whilst I too support the prohibition of anything that will portray this hobby/sport in a negative view, maybe you should tone it down a bit mate, honestly.

    I can guarantee you that, if in some hypothetical scenario we ended up attending the same war somewhere, and you even hinted towards destroying someone else's blaster that had a questionable paint scheme, you'd get the opportunity to consider your actions from a hospital bed for quite some time.

    There's a right way and a wrong way of going about things, and it's pretty obvious which you've chosen. Yes, I understand this has been an ongoing dilemma for quite some time, and I also appreciate your efforts in trying to promote the sport in a positive way. But that statement has undone any good work by yourself.

    Is this really the image you want to project on the younger member's/war attendee's? Not a real healthy attitude, but that's just my opinion.

    After speaking to a few ex-copper's, and local law enforcement people last night at work, their recommendation is to seek advice from the weapon's licencing division of your State, and conform with the guidelines/legislation they provide. Having only lived in rural areas, I'm unsure of how law enforcement is distributed in metro areas, with suburbs etc. The recommendation made to me, was to notify in advance to the local police station of any upcoming wars, obviously including date and time. It's a pretty good pro-active approaching to avoiding negative situations. If the police are already aware of what is happening, there's a good chance they'll be less tense when attending a call-out to investigate a heap of people wielding equipment that's been mistaken for firearms. Like it's been mentioned, they too are people, and generally of good nature, unless they feel that their life is being threatened - and tbh, who wouldn't.

    I hope I've been able to contribute some useful information to all the war organiser's, and I'm continuing to obtain more information for the Qld guys. The ball has been set in motion guys.

    Cheers,
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    littlebro05
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  littlebro05 on Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:40 am

    I've had a few people turn up to wars with their 'matte black' / painted camo blaster (in my extensive guide to modding, I'm calling the 'Nerf Gun' a Nerf Blaster or Toy - as it IS a toy) and usually how I deal with them is telling them that they are not allowed to use it as policemen can confiscate their blaster and kick us off the field. If it has at least some orange here and there, I generally allow them use it, but told them if it does get confiscated because that's how some policemen are, then it's their own fault.

    I'm slowly pushing people if they want some camo themes, they should painting their blasters some bright awesome colour like Clunk07 is doing. However, I would not want to destroy their blaster at all as if I was a noob kid who just got it for Christmas or saved up all the money for it, bringing it to a war and getting it destroyed... obviously that'll turn members from coming because you just made yourself look like the villain.

    We've actually had a few times when policement have 'coincidentally' drove pass a war location and looking. However, they didn't bother stopping because the moment they saw a whole bunch of colourful blasters being contrasted with something more 'darker', they just went away. So whoever called the cops on us, didn't really work. Since rubbernecking (no offence to any policemen out there) is part of their job to keep the community safe.
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    Mozart

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Mozart on Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:03 am

    Not to mention, if you go and destroy someone else's blaster, you can probably be charged for it. It's not yours, so where the hell do you get the right to smash it? Tell them not to use it, sure, but I agree with Clunk, that's a load of sh.. Some kid's Dad will probably feel the exact same, again.

    Cody
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    clunk07
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  clunk07 on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:42 pm

    Been doing a little bit of research for other States, and have come up with this:

    NSW:

    http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au./viewtop/inforce/act+46+1996+cd+0+N/?autoquery=(Content%3D((%22imitation%20firearm%22)))%20AND%20((Type%3D%22act%22%20AND%20Repealed%3D%22N%22)%20OR%20(Type%3D%22subordleg%22%20AND%20Repealed%3D%22N%22))&dq=Document%20Types%3D%22Acts,%20Regs%22,%20Exact%20Phrase%3D%22imitation%20firearm%22,%20Search%20In%3D%22Text%22&fullquery=(((%22imitation%20firearm%22)))

    (3) In this section, imitation firearm means an object that, regardless of its colour, weight or composition or the presence or absence of any moveable parts, substantially duplicates in appearance a firearm but that is not a firearm.
    (4) However, an imitation firearm does not include any such object that is produced and identified as a children’s toy.

    QLD:

    Currently, not finding much at all from the qld police website, though I have contacted the weapon's licencing division, in an appeal for some clarification. Research has shown though, that there has been attempts to implement a similar system to that of Victoria in regards to imitation firearms, but to date, the bill hasn't been passed.

    WA:


    TAS


    NT


    ACT

    Feel free to add any info specific to your state. Actual information though, not something you've heard from some guy, who knows another guy etc etc

    Cheers,
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    Joey

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Joey on Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:40 am

    Your post should be made into a new thread and stickied I believe clunk. It is crucial that we all understand the laws regarding imitation firearms and painted nerf guns.

    Unless I am running a private war on private property I plan to stick to Victoria's law, even if it might not be the same as QLD it is the safest for avoiding an incident with police.


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    clunk07
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  clunk07 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:15 am

    I thought it would be best to try and obtain the info for all the States first mate, then use the information to create a new thread.

    I'm hoping that the relevant organiser's from each State will contribute.

    As much as I feel the Vic laws are excessive, I still think it's a good idea to use it as the standard requirement for complying with relevant firearm legislation.

    Cheers,


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    Swatsonia

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Swatsonia on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:22 am

    For WA, there are no actual restrictions for the appearance of imitation firearms, just the modification of plugged barrel imitations.
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  clunk07 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:24 am

    Hey Swat, you wouldn't have a link to the legislation handy at all...

    Cheers,


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    mull

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  mull on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:53 am

    At this point in time, I only have definite information for Victoria, as a fellow Victorian, hence the title of this thread.
    A simple reference on their police website absolutely helps.

    Generally, police websites are horrible at finding the stuff that you really want to know.
    There are also legislation reference sites around, but the legalese is a pain to read and translate into layman's terms.

    Honestly, if information about this matter were just as easy to access and complete as Victoria's, I would have made an extensive thread on this.
    However, as a matter of priority, announcing the newly enforced laws for Victoria is much more important than trying to compile all the information from other states and having the announcement delayed.

    In reality, some Victorian Nerfers are about to, or have been unknownly breaking the law since the last few weeks with their paintjobs and cosmetic mods.

    It is up to other folks from other states, to find out what laws are enforced in their relevant states, as this is a warning call to everyone, not just simply Victorians.
    Please contribute any relevant information that you have, but please have proper references.
    We don't want unconfirmed information, especially when it comes to the law.
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    Swatsonia

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Swatsonia on Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:56 am

    Damn hard to find this info, at least 20 minutes of googling to get any direct results.

    http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Ourservices/Firearms/Legislation/tabid/1621/Default.aspx

    There is actually no recorded legislation I could get my hands on that mentioned imitation firearms in relation to nerf.

    ctrl + f in legislation returned important results in this page:

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_reg/fr1974211/s26.html

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    mull

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  mull on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:04 am

    Now you know I how I felt, Swats.
    Frustrating isn't it?

    I've dropped by cop shops on at least 3 separate occasions, regarding to firearms.
    So far, none of them can confidently tell me the steps required to own a real one.
    Thought about it on and off, when I was younger. Decided it wasn't worth the bother and cash, after the phase had passed.
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    Jeo

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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  Jeo on Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:17 am

    clunk07 wrote:I'm hoping that the relevant organiser's from each State will contribute.

    Already in discussions with the AFP to get a definitive answer for the ACT.
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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

    Post  clunk07 on Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:11 am

    Thanks Jeo, Mull and Swats.

    I spent a number of hours last night trying to source some actual legislation, with limited results.

    I've contacted the Qld Weapons Licencing division, so we'll wait and see what they produce.

    Looks like, hopefully, we'll have Vic, WA, Qld, NSW and ACT covered at this stage.

    If one of you Tassie and SA guys wouldn't mind investing a bit of time, it would be a big help. I'll try and set some time aside to continue the search myself. I'll also look for NT - do we have a member from the Territory???

    Cheers,


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    Re: Victoria Police - Imitation Firearm Amendments (Active 2011 July 01)

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