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    crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

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    abowden

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2010-12-16
    Location : launceston

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  abowden on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:11 pm

    ok, noted, does that mean I should cancel the project?
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    -mirsho

    Posts : 303
    Join date : 2011-04-08
    Age : 24
    Location : Blacktown, Sydney, NSW

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  -mirsho on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:33 pm

    Yeah, you probably should. Heaps good effort though, I'm pretty sure we all want crossbows !
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    abowden

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2010-12-16
    Location : launceston

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  abowden on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:45 pm

    I still wan't to go through with this, will the commercial in voice help?
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    clunk07
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    Age : 37
    Location : Blackwater, Queensland

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  clunk07 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:03 pm

    Yeh, have to agree with Ben.

    Alibaba is full of fraudster's - avoid like the plague in my opinion!!

    Cheers,


    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


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    CWC Blaster-smith Services
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    abowden

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2010-12-16
    Location : launceston

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  abowden on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:05 pm

    ok, I am going to cancel it.
    I am so sorry, to everyone.

    though I could contact someone informer has been through before, but that isn't likely.
    and I am sorry to SS most of all.
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    Silent Scope

    Posts : 510
    Join date : 2010-07-01
    Age : 29
    Location : Greenvale, Victoria, Australia

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  Silent Scope on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:22 am

    inf0rm3r wrote:Those AV Checks mean nothing and are easy to obtain.

    Proving a Chinese/Taiwanese/Indonesian/Indian supplier legit is not as easy as it seems.

    I do close to 40 checks and about 10 phone calls myself before I even sample off a company to produce goods. Reason being is 90% of these factories are con jobs and produce illegal goods and their business practices aren't even legit. Those knockoffs you see on Alibaba, if you import them and you get caught you will receive one whopping fine. In Fact sadly 60%+ of what you see on Alibaba is usually a scam or second rate product. Even after those checks I've recommended to people I've heard of people still being conned out of money even from AV checked suppliers. Alibaba is simply an ebay system for bulk buying, except in Alibaba more than half the listings are frauds. I personally avoid it and talk to actual people and factories myself...

    ... Molds are also expensive especially plastic molds, silicone not so much, but for a plastic mold from a GOOD chinese supplier it will still cost you roughly $1000-$10,000 each you can't just mold the shell in one hit either it's not that simple. A salesperson will always under quote their MOQ's etc I can guarantee you 3,000 is not even half of what you'll need to order to keep the unit price down...

    ... Also you have to take into account, shipping, customs and the laws here, generally a unit cost can double even triple with the joke of a tax system we have in place here.

    The plastic must reach a VERY strict standard to get into the country, also a new product shipped across must undergo a lab test to see if the levels meet the correct standards. Some of this costs 10,000-20,000 depending on the product. This is VERY strict on toys in particular.

    There are thousands of things and costs you don't see from just a quick look, and some of them if you aren't careful involve heavy fines.

    Be Very VERY VERY Careful, take it from someone who's done a lot of research and importing, mistakes can you land you in a big pile of shite.
    You've pretty much hit the nail in summerising the procedures in making these so called "cheap Crossbows" outsourced overseas.

    The two factors which I saw the biggest problem were:

    • The shells: Sure it may be fairly routine to just have the shell replicated, but tossing up whether to have the separate moulds for the internals or using local parts to make the internals was a completely different story.

    • The acquisition of the shells themselves through a crate means that you need to pay for freight and tariffs as they arrive in Australia. And that's not to mention the stringent tests to see whether such items would be deemed allowable under set standard of safety guidelines for the materials used.

    Now, to get an understanding of how I was planning to approach my own initiative I was planning to do the following steps utilising local businesses and trades:

    • Having the shells 3D scanned: This procedure alone costs $1800+ just to scan one side to make a softcopy representation. Not only the high costs were pushing me back, but knowing that most blasters themselves are not completely symmetrical inside means that you'd be spending more than $3600 just to get a softcopy plan without any other plans for the internals (again, see previous comment addressed).

    • Having the shells made: You'd then need to go to a rapid plastic prototyper who would have the ability to translate the softcopy into a physical product. But we're talking about at least $500 just for the shell, and that's being very conservative. You want to making tens of copies? Think well over $2000 if you wanted to make the shells in bulk, and this is not including the components inside the shell which would cost additional amounts to gather the pieces from different places plus labour in completing a working model.

    This is strictly the reason why I made my point at the start to inform that having something replicated takes much more thought and process than what meets the eye. This doesn't means that the idea is lost in my own account, but rather that it's only going to stay in the back of my mind for a while while I have better and more important things to attend to. I'd like to emphasise that I COULD draft up plans of the Crossbow with subtle variations in the measurements, but it definitely isn't a priority at this stage.

    Just stick to what we have at the moment and be content with it. . You want a Crossbow? Go save up money and buy your own in your own time.

    Also:
    inf0rm3r wrote:You simply cannot reproduce a crossbow, Hasbro will have you and everything you own in court the next day.
    Design patents are usually only registered for 15 years, and from then onwards need to be re-registered. However, being a multi-million dollar company you can bet that Hasbro would've been on top of the issue ages ago, and that any mass-produced initiative will certainly warrant a cease-and-desist order regardless of being in the US should they see any slight evidence of patent-infringement.
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    Nooft1187

    Posts : 79
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    Age : 29
    Location : Kalgoorlie. W.A.

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  Nooft1187 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:23 am

    Unknown wrote:What about copyright on the Crossbow design? Hasbro might not like you reproducing their products.

    Would it be possible to talk to our friends on nh ad give them plans for the plus bow? Just need smaller springs, ar's and I recon that they can design the plunger head. That way we know that we can get a huge plunger tube wich will be great for modding later
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    inf0rm3r
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    Age : 27
    Location : Ipswich, Brisbane, Australia

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  inf0rm3r on Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:16 am

    Everything's possible, it's just having the millions of dollars needed to get the MOQ's to bring the unit price down to a competitive price, this is why Hasbro use's the same or similar reverse plunger system.

    You can shortcut some costs, if your an absolute genius in every form of engineering, but I doubt any of us are here.
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    abowden

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2010-12-16
    Location : launceston

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  abowden on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:47 am

    so its settled, if any one of us becomes a millionaire, we do it
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    redcricket077

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    Age : 20
    Location : SE Suburbs Melbourne

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  redcricket077 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:15 am

    ^ LOL that's easy
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    abowden

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2010-12-16
    Location : launceston

    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

    Post  abowden on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:05 am

    Yes I'm sure its easy just visit one of those classes on how to make millions, and BOOM instant cash!

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    Re: crossbow interest (its not what you might think)

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