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    Purpose built competitive blasters

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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Kaine on Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:33 pm

    For starters, I can't find much at all in reference to what is the legal definition of an "air rifle" in Australia. I remember some states have a fps indicator of what is considered a weapon, but I can't find that now either. It like a lot of things seems to be pretty vague, technically under the 1997 legislation a Nerf gun is considered to be a weapon, same with a straw and a spitball.

    For the actual design perhaps starting with something like a stripped NF (but perhaps bigger) for a springer, and a decent metal compressed air tank for the tank blasters (tankers?).
    I would think designing both mechanisms to be of comparable size, so that the internals could be different but fit in the same shells, would be ideal.
    Or perhaps, have an attachable stock for tankers, that is the air tank. For example, soda stream has 40L/60L/100L* CO2 tanks.
    Also if you want to go all the way, it shouldn't be hard to design the springer, so that you can use a motor in it for auto, or take out the motor kit and use it as a semi-auto.

    *Currently have a plan running for a Raider conversion to allow a 100L tank and a rotating tubular magazine. Just have to actually start doing something about it....
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    camo1010

    Posts : 443
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    Location : Toowoomba QLD, Australia, Earth, Milky way....

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  camo1010 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:04 pm

    I have an old deploy that I dismantled. I want to put the turret from a maverick into the spot where the mag well was. I want to chop out the insides and make it an air blaster
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    mavshot

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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  mavshot on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:10 am

    You will also have to find out the legality on a state basis.

    May I suggest that you build a couple of springers because you are going to have legal trouble with airguns. Also you should build a pump action attachment.
    It would also be good if you created much stronger internals so the thing will actually last a few years.
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    camo1010

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    Location : Toowoomba QLD, Australia, Earth, Milky way....

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  camo1010 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:04 am

    A LS-style blaster with all-metal internals... that would be very nice however, a CNC machine would be needed for that or someone that has all of the right equipment to make a mold and cast them out of metal.

    If we could get out hands on a furnace, we could use the pull tabs off drink cans. They are made of an alloy consisting of aluminum and small quantities of titanium to give it strength to open the can (they fetch a good price at the scrappers too)
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    Swatsonia

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    Join date : 2010-07-20
    Age : 24
    Location : Willeton, Perth, WA

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Swatsonia on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:47 am

    mister_elliott wrote:
    Swatsonia wrote:*cough*HOMEMADES*cough*

    Seriously, since these things are primarily aimed at 10 year olds, the companies cannot do something like this.

    Yeah pretty much.

    I don't think homemade springers will have much of a future after this weekend, which is great since air systems are easier to fit anywhere..

    In terms of concealing ridiculous power levels, definitely. Homemade springers can still pack the same range as airguns but with a much higher RoF, though. They're just harder to fit into existing shells.
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    Arkham

    Posts : 89
    Join date : 2011-05-27
    Age : 33
    Location : Baldivis W.A.

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Arkham on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:02 am



    Last edited by Arkham on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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    camo1010

    Posts : 443
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    Location : Toowoomba QLD, Australia, Earth, Milky way....

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  camo1010 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:03 am

    A springer would be good for close combat.

    I want a high powered air blaster for non-human targeting
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    Swatsonia

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    Age : 24
    Location : Willeton, Perth, WA

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Swatsonia on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:33 am

    camo1010 wrote:A springer would be good for close combat.

    I want a high powered air blaster for non-human targeting

    Not necessarily. My Snap Carbine, which has been defined as "meh" by the Americans in terms of power, will never be used to shoot someone within 10m during normal gameplay. Something with that velocity and weight behind the dart will leave welts aplenty in CQC.
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    camo1010

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    Location : Toowoomba QLD, Australia, Earth, Milky way....

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  camo1010 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:46 am

    I'm not so much worried about the damage (to an extent) the RoF is what I want
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    Luke

    Posts : 986
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    Age : 20
    Location : Patterson Lakes, Melbourne

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Luke on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:44 am

    Swatsonia wrote:
    camo1010 wrote:A springer would be good for close combat.

    I want a high powered air blaster for non-human targeting

    Not necessarily. My Snap Carbine, which has been defined as "meh" by the Americans in terms of power, will never be used to shoot someone within 10m during normal gameplay. Something with that velocity and weight behind the dart will leave welts aplenty in CQC.
    Having been shot with Swats Snap Carbine I can say that is quite powerful and is actually impressive.
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    camo1010

    Posts : 443
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    Location : Toowoomba QLD, Australia, Earth, Milky way....

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  camo1010 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:00 am

    I think I need to see this.

    What's the RoF like?
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    clunk07
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    Location : Blackwater, Queensland

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  clunk07 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:21 am

    Swatsonia wrote:
    mister_elliott wrote:
    Swatsonia wrote:*cough*HOMEMADES*cough*

    Seriously, since these things are primarily aimed at 10 year olds, the companies cannot do something like this.

    Yeah pretty much.

    I don't think homemade springers will have much of a future after this weekend, which is great since air systems are easier to fit anywhere..

    In terms of concealing ridiculous power levels, definitely. Homemade springers can still pack the same range as airguns but with a much higher RoF, though. They're just harder to fit into existing shells.

    Nothing against home-mades, or yourself Swat, but I'd be pretty impressed myself to see any springer compete with air blaster's in range. It's apples and oranges really. But, yes, without a doubt, springer's will always own with ROF. Even with all these yet-to-be-seen miracle semi-auto etc air blaster's, a manually-primed 2-stage springer will always have the highest ROF over an extended period. You really can't carry around an auxillary air tank that can match the endurance and speed of the human arm...

    Cheers,


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    cfb_rolley

    Posts : 254
    Join date : 2011-10-16
    Age : 29
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  cfb_rolley on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:32 am

    alright, alright, it's definitely possible to build a semi-automatic VALVE for an air blaster yourself, but darts still would have to be manually loaded. the method involves a main air tank leading to the "normally open" side of a 3-way valve, which fills a piston valve. reverse the 3-way valve and it pilots the piston valve, which imparts the piston valve's chamber pressure on the outlet side of the piston valve. 3-way valve is deactivated back to it's normal position, and automatically refills the piston valve.

    This post on my blog from ages ago roughly explains how piston valves work.

    ..furthermore, I think I'l start on a modular springer blaster design, possibly do a few shell designs for it, then just, release the designs to whoever wants them. I'll probably one day have one made for myself, but to be honest what I'd want out of the work I'd be doing is to see someone pick up the designs and use them to make foam sports better.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Kaine on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:51 pm

    mavshot wrote:May I suggest that you build a couple of springers because you are going to have legal trouble with airguns. Also you should build a pump action attachment.
    It would also be good if you created much stronger internals so the thing will actually last a few years.

    Just for reference, one of the common methods that air rifles use is a spring powered piston, also the law doesn't really differentiate between them, as many methods are listed under what air guns use to fire a projectile.

    Thanks to Clunk in the other thread the threshold is 180 fps 1M from the muzzle. Bearing that in mind perhaps aiming for 170-175fps muzzle velocity.
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    clunk07
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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  clunk07 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:06 pm

    Kaine wrote:
    mavshot wrote:May I suggest that you build a couple of springers because you are going to have legal trouble with airguns. Also you should build a pump action attachment.
    It would also be good if you created much stronger internals so the thing will actually last a few years.

    Just for reference, one of the common methods that air rifles use is a spring powered piston, also the law doesn't really differentiate between them, as many methods are listed under what air guns use to fire a projectile.

    Thanks to Clunk in the other thread the threshold is 180 fps 1M from the muzzle. Bearing that in mind perhaps aiming for 170-175fps muzzle velocity.

    As mentioned earlier, when inf0rm3r tested his chrony out, I'm positive that most air blaster's were above the 180fps threshold, and a few were over double that rate. My own observation puts a plugged Titan at a similar velocity of a .22 cal air rifle, if not a bit higher.

    I'm unsure if a BBLS has been tested, but it would be interesting to see the fps rating of one. My advice would be to aim for something around the velocity/range of a modded PAS. The couple I've done up hit around 110 feet, and will pierce one layer of cardboard with a stinger. Obviously, I'm a bit vague with power limitations of other states, but a PAS modded to this level fits the requirements of most Brisbane wars. Just my thoughts anyway...

    Cheers,


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    cfb_rolley

    Posts : 254
    Join date : 2011-10-16
    Age : 29
    Location : Brisbane

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  cfb_rolley on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:43 am

    Alright. Here's where I'm at and what I need some assistance with.

    I've already started some basic drafting on a spring blaster, however I need some exact measurements now before I go any further, but my vernier calipers need new batteries and everywhere is closed for the next 2 days.

    I need to know 3 things:
    1) I.D of the breech of any CS Nerf blaster.
    2) O.D of the longshot plunger O-ring
    3) horizontal distance of travel between the bolt open position and bolt closed position on a LS.
    4) compressed length of a LS spring

    I'm not copying these measurements, but at the same time I'm not wanting to go way too excessive.
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    clunk07
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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  clunk07 on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:10 am

    cfb_rolley wrote:Alright. Here's where I'm at and what I need some assistance with.

    I've already started some basic drafting on a spring blaster, however I need some exact measurements now before I go any further, but my vernier calipers need new batteries and everywhere is closed for the next 2 days.

    I need to know 3 things:
    1) I.D of the breech of any CS Nerf blaster.
    2) O.D of the longshot plunger O-ring
    3) horizontal distance of travel between the bolt open position and bolt closed position on a LS.
    4) compressed length of a LS spring

    I'm not copying these measurements, but at the same time I'm not wanting to go way too excessive.

    1. 13.47mm
    2. o-ring - 35.18mm. ID of plunger tube - 35.98mm
    3. 80.2mm - that's the priming bar travel.
    4. 25.7mm compressed stock LS spring

    You do realise that's 4 things.... haha

    Cheers,


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    Clunk Weapons Co. Blaster-smith Services:
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    cfb_rolley

    Posts : 254
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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  cfb_rolley on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:05 am

    lol whoops, forgot to change it to 4 haha. thanks very much, pretty interesting that there's a 0.8mm tolerance between the o-ring and the plunger tube.
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    clunk07
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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  clunk07 on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:09 am

    cfb_rolley wrote:lol whoops, forgot to change it to 4 haha. thanks very much, pretty interesting that there's a 0.8mm tolerance between the o-ring and the plunger tube.


    Yeh, well the o-ring size is best guesstimate really. Trying to measure the diameter of a flexible rubber circle isn't the easiest of tasks. But, yep, that's why the teflon tape around the o-ring seat is so important.

    Cheers,


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    Coolys1000

    Posts : 17
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    Age : 18
    Location : Melbourne

    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  Coolys1000 on Thu May 31, 2012 2:13 pm

    I think that if someone was actually going to do this they should at least look through the questions/general nerf threads and see what people want and are looking for in a nerf blaster or attatchments i.e a useful scope/acog scope, a decent laser beam on the bottom that works well, metal internals etc. look at them first then see if you can incorporate it into a nerf blaster.
    that's what i think needs to happen at least.
    What do you think?
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    cfb_rolley

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    Re: Purpose built competitive blasters

    Post  cfb_rolley on Thu May 31, 2012 2:29 pm

    In terms of designing something that could be sold in volumes that'd be a wise idea. At the end of the day, if anyone wants to sell blasters that aren't Nerf, they're going to have to go head to head against Nerf, and to be successful at that it's gotta be one hell of a blaster that pleases a large group of people, and is also cost effective. Best w to do that is to, like you said, read questions.

    Making a once off however would mean that you're not bound by such constraints, so you could build the most expensive, insane blaster for yourself without worrying about who's going to like it or how well it would sell.

    Thank you for kicking this thread up by the way, reminded me I should stop being lazy and keep designing a blaster.

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