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    Titan barrel questions.

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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:15 pm

    First of all, I am in the process of modding my Titan to allow for a clip feed system, in a very similar fashion to the one Clunk so generously wrote up and posted for all to see.
    Except that I want to use a much simpler setup that only has the barrel with a cutout for the darts to load in, and a second pipe/tube to slide down/up and seal the breech.
    The problem arises due to the fact that I want the second pipe/tube to be able to slide up and down the barrel without getting caught on the N-strike mag, which significantly limits what barrel materials I can use.
    I would like to avoid using petg, as I don't like how brittle it can be.
    What I would like to know:
    1. What kind of barrel materials (particularly in a durable plastic variety) can do what I described above?
    2. Is brass not commonly used for any particular reasons?
    3. Should the dart fit be tight or on the almost slightly loose side?
    4. What kind of barrel length should I be aiming for?*

    *I realise that barrel length is subjective to dart weight, dart length, dart fit, dart type and air pressure in the tank, but I would like a ballpark guestimate.

    I am planning on using it to initially fire streamlines, then probably BT darts or customs later down the track. Would also like to avoid brass, because it seems to be quite unforgiving, and clearing jams won't be easy with this thing once complete. Also have access to a lathe, so slimming down a pipe is feasible, but not preferred.
    If all goes to plan, I will be attaching the moving tube to the priming handle of the Raider, to facilitate with the reloads, and some surgical rubber will be used to return the front grip back home. Much like a spring assisted straight pull rifle.
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:46 am

    Hi Kaine,

    Could you please send me the link to Clunk's writeup? I'm not exactly sure what the problem is. I'm guessing that 16mm conduit is too think. Maybe 16mm irrigation pipe will work? It has a nice "airgun" fit on darts and is relatively thin, made of plastic and is very, very flexible. 9/16 brass might also work, but I find that 17/32 brass does not really work for stock streamlines unless you are hand feeding them (eg Nite Finder).

    I'm not expert when it comes to barrels, but from what I have heard the length of the barrel is directly related to the air output of your blaster, therefore a titan will need a huge barrel. I think you will need at least a 40cm barrel, maybe even more. Generally you want a loose barrel fit for air blasters. I think the tightness of the barrel is related to how quick the air is released, so a barrel that is loose is ok, but the darts shouldn't slide up and down with no resistance.

    As to ammunition, I would not recommend streamlines, as they are way too light and they will go absolutely crazy with something as powerful as a titan. I would suggest getting some cheap 1/2 backer rod from the US and making some glue domes with 00 or 0 fishing weights. I got my foam HERE and I get the weights from Kmart.

    Hope that helps,
    Sanchez
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    Jeo

    Posts : 462
    Join date : 2011-01-27
    Age : 30
    Location : Canberra

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Jeo on Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:24 am

    If straight barrel or very basic breech, I'd say 17/32 brass with 9/16 sheath. But that will get harder once using a clip fed breech.

    In answer to your actually questions though...

    1. 16mm conduit could work and does fit relatively well in 20mm conduit.
    2. Tolerances with brass are incredibly tight. This is good because if means ou get a perfect seal, bad because you have to be spot on otherwise it all fails.
    3. Tight for something as powerful as a titan.
    4. Depends on the ID of the barrel. 30cm of 17/32 brass goes pretty well.
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:28 am

    Expanding on what Jeo said, from my experience 17/32 won't work for clip fed breeches, the darts just bend and jam. Could be just me though. Maybe an RSCB or hopper (if you make custom darts) could be the way to go.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:31 am

    @Sanchez
    This is what Clunk did that I am talking about:
    http://oznerf.forumotion.com/t3772-cwc-clip-fed-titan

    But I want the barrel fixed or immobile and the second tube that seals to be what moves, which means that the OD of the outer tube needs to be small enough that it can slide in and out of an N-strike clip.



    Just in case any clarification is needed I mocked this up, (no scaling used though) the arrow indicates the direction of travel for the dart.

    Irrigation pipe will likely not be rigid enough for the output, also I would rather not have something that I will have to get the barrel set and straight in the shell.
    Brass is sounding more and more likely at this point, but the tolerances are going to be slim, and that is not completely favourable.

    The Raider itself means the barrel has to be at least 360mm long, and I will likely do a few basic tests once the barrel material is sorted, how much depends on the material's value I suppose.

    As for Darts, I am aware that streamlines are complete shit, but I have 350+ of them, so it seems a little silly not to use them, plus I don't intend to shoot my cousin's kids with anything other than streamlines.

    @Jeo
    1. 20mm conduit won't fit in an N-strike clip though, right?
    2. Yeah, that is what I am trying to avoid, but with how things are looking it is going to be metal of some sort.
    3. Right.
    4. Looks like my minimum of 360mm shouldn't cause that much of an issue then.

    I do have quite a bit of HEP20 right now, but I have already eliminated it as a viable barrel material, I really don't like how tight it is for this application.

    I appreciate your assistance guys, cheers.
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:46 am

    I see what you mean. I can only use irrigation pipe if it is nested in PVC or conduit. In that case your only option that I can think of is using brass. Depending on how you want it to fit, use 17/32 barrel and a 9/16 sheath or a 9/16 barrel and a 19/32 sheath. Both 9/16 and 19/32 fit into a N-Strike clip. As to the tolerances, I find 17/32 is too tight for a breech, and 9/16 is too loose for something like a titan. I guess you will have to experiment.

    And with regards to the darts, streamlines are definitely the way to go then. If you want a little extra accuracy, consider filling the heads of the streamlines with hot glue for more weight. They don't hurt too much.

    Maybe you should consider using a writeup for a brass breech Longshot or Recon? It is a clip fed breech, and if you are using a Raider shell then the priming will be easy using the Raider's existing bolt sled and clip well. Just an idea.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:06 am

    Somehow I knew deep down that it was going to be brass, on the bright side if I get enough I can knock out a few LSs as well.
    When you say too loose or tight, do you mean for dart fit, or tube on tube?

    I intend on using the straw method, with a little extra hot glue in the tube itself, seems to work well in the few I tried. Also allows me to keep the heads hollow, as they are quite young at this stage.

    Already had a look through quite a few of the various breech tutorials (brass to PVC and everything else) to get an idea of what I wanted to do, and it has all been worked out, I just needed to know what materials I could use, that met my criteria.
    The plan is to directly attach the moving tube (coloured green in the pic) directly to the Raider's priming handle. The sled had to be removed so that I could nest the Titan's missile post in the Raider magwell, plus it wouldn't slide back because that part of the blaster has been removed. I am very much working on an extremely simple mechanism, less to worry about. Plus for someone as lazy as I am, the simpler it is the less I have to do.

    Cheers
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:27 am

    When I say tight I mean the fit on the dart. The brass on brass contact is amazing, almost friction-less but airtight. Just a tip with brass, avoid cutting with rotary tube cutters if you need the inner diameter to stay exact. The tube cutters bend the lip of the pip in a bit, which can make it hard for other pipes to slide inside. I find the best way to cut is make a mark with rotary cutters and then use a hacksaw and file.

    The opening and closing sounds good, and the darts sound good too. My friends titan hurt his brother at around 20m, so better safe than sorry.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:23 am

    I was hoping that is what you meant, in that case I will go for 9/16 and toss in a few tightening rings, should allow me a bit of leeway with future darts.
    I intend to use a drop saw with a non-ferrous metal wheel. But I will be getting a nice cheap rotary pipe cutter to blunt down and use for the rings.

    Yeah, if I do end up using it on them next time, I won't be using full pressure, save that for my cousin himself.
    Anyway, thanks for the help, that should be all I need.
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:41 am

    Glad I could help. I was messing around with my 9/16 BBLS today and I think you should really make sure you don't want 17/32. It is tight, but 9/16 is really loose, almost where darts will slide around. I don't think it will really matter too much as you don't really need to maximize your range and a titan will shoot lasers regardless, but I think you should give both a go.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:55 am

    Cheers, I am sourcing three foot lengths so I can see which suits best, plus it will give me plenty for BB my LS.
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    Sanchez

    Posts : 80
    Join date : 2013-09-09
    Age : 18
    Location : East Ivanhoe, Victoria

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Sanchez on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:47 am

    Just for curiosity, how much is the brass you are buying? I paid $7.50 a foot.
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    Kaine

    Posts : 75
    Join date : 2012-01-19
    Age : 29
    Location : QLD, Murphys Creek.

    Re: Titan barrel questions.

    Post  Kaine on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:44 am

    I don't know yet, the local hobby shop that has K&S brass is going to order me some in, if they don't get back to me in a week or so I will contact the two distributors in Oz and see what I can do to order it from them.

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