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Jimeth
Chaos-Blades
-Aj-
inf0rm3r
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    Proposed Development of Pro-Foam

    inf0rm3r
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    Proposed Development of Pro-Foam Empty Proposed Development of Pro-Foam

    Post  inf0rm3r Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:37 am

    I am looking into developing a pro foam for use specifically in the higher end of nerf modifications. The blue foam is moving well and soon ordering this stuff will be a whole lot more simple with a web based interface.

    I believe the main two factors which need attention are an even higher density than current foam I'm thinking possibly 25% harder which will increase the cost by 40% but with a dual shipment this will be cheaper anyway and still cost roughly the same due to discounts.

    The second is diameter, I am thinking primarily have a tight fit but not overly tight fit into Brass.

    I would also have to look for this shipment due to the base cost at a couple of people to pitch in some larger quantities to distribute themselves to each state.

    Discuss seriously.
    -Aj-
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    Post  -Aj- Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:40 am

    After some experience with your foam.

    It must be Rod, not tube. Otherwise it just wont stand up to use in higher powered nerf guns. I get usually 2-3 shots max out of each blue stefan I make, before the heads get blown off. Hot glue is just not an effective enough bonding agent when the air is being delivered straight down the dart.

    Also the grain structure needs to be bigger, as yours compresses too easy after a few firings.

    basically 1/2" dark grey FBR spec, but more consistent in sizing throughout the batch.

    Aj


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    Chaos-Blades
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    Post  Chaos-Blades Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:40 am

    -Aj- wrote:After some experience with your foam.
    It must be Rod, not tube.
    basically 1/2" dark grey FBR spec, but more consistent in sizing throughout the batch.
    I second that opinion, and so does Tidge.

    My left over 13mm black FBR is perfect, I only have like 40 darts of them though.

    I seriously think that the blue tube foam could be dangerous if used from something too powerful. Solid rod foam has much better endurance because of the greater surface area for the hot glue to bond with.

    Also, people please put a bit of hot glue in the hole BEFORE you put the weight in, that helps keep the weight IN the dart instead of flying at my face.
    inf0rm3r
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    Post  inf0rm3r Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:24 am

    Consistency on the machines foam is produced on has a maximum of 0.75mm diameter change through a 10,000M batch, which is just about the best I could find and much better than any FBR available.

    The pro foam will be rod. I will also make it a different coloured blue to differenciate them.

    I will investigate what my supplier can do in regards to Grain size, the actual material used is EVA foam and I believe this can be manipulated a fair bit from what I have seen on the market. Take pools noodles for example.

    As for bonding agents, I haven't run into any problems with using a similar method to Chaos Blades. I use a low temp gun, drop some glue in first into the dart down the hole and then embed the weight, with another layer on the top with a slight excess when the cap is pushed on to make some of the glue seep out the side then smooth it off with your fingers. I have tried 7-8 brands of hot glue and I can say the best I've come across is plain clear el cheapo 2 dollar store glue. Officeworks glue is also good, but the guns they slot into are far to high temp and burn holes in everything I've tried.

    Using this method for darts I take to wars with a BBBB has worked flawlessly, very few weights and tips have come off even after 2-3 wars. I think nerfing should be limited to this range otherwise it will simply turn into a milsim fest.

    The problem is glueing a porous surface to a non-porous i.e Foam to Metal, Foam to plastic. I'll have to look around for a cheap option to do this. Epoxy does but it is rather expensive, unless in bucket form where I have seen it pretty cheap. I'm just thinking out of the box here.

    Diameter is going to be the main problem as everyone has his own preference to material. I'm even of thinking of swapping factories to try to get smaller MOQ's to do both Brass and PETG. Brass is a great material it's downside is it's cost and availability in some areas. Perhaps even developing our own custom material could be an option to although this would easily get messy when nesting breeches etc.
    -Aj-
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    Post  -Aj- Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:27 am

    yeah even with hot glue in before the weight they done last long. With the tube half the time we're essentially shooting fishing weights at each other which is highly dangerous.

    I've never really been able to get the white foam past 110 feet, which is frustrating as it is very durable, however I have been able to achieve ranges of 120-170 with the same weapons using the blue foam, just the darts are dead after one firing.

    As far as thickness, your current foam is perfect, if we got it in rod perhaps even a hair thinner so that when it is heated the diameter is only slightly larger than the unheated rod. When you dont blow dry the rod to straighten it (I use straws to strengthen my darts so it is not needed) it is springer fit in 17/32 and conduit/hep 20, and airgun fit in PETG, and this is about perfect. Even if it is just the same diameter, it will expand a little when heated but probably will compress after a few firings and be the perfect size

    Aj


    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Bow to me for I am your new god mod

    Roger Explosion wrote:you won't even get close to hitting the broardside of Aj's ego using stock streamlines
    inf0rm3r
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    Post  inf0rm3r Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:37 am

    Your post just reminded me of another issue with foam in general.

    The black FBR I previously had on hot summer days actually expanded to the point where it was nearly impossible to fit in either materials. We haven't had a summer with the blue one yet so it's hard to predict what will happen.

    I'm thinking roughly 0.5mm thinner, the samples from Rod and Tube showed the Rod was slightly thicker because there was less room to compress like the tubed version so this give us the size we need.

    Would it be possible to get a picture close up with the blue and white foam or even a sample, I could send this to my supplier to get an idea to solve the issues were having. They are asian so sometimes they aren't the easiest to explain things to, good english but not perfect.
    Jimeth
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    Post  Jimeth Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:55 am

    inf0rm3r wrote:The problem is glueing a porous surface to a non-porous i.e Foam to Metal, Foam to plastic. I'll have to look around for a cheap option to do this. Epoxy does but it is rather expensive, unless in bucket form where I have seen it pretty cheap.
    Could that problem be resolved by roughing the non-porous surface up with sandpaper or something similar? 'Twould eliminate the need for stronger (more expensive) adhesives if it worked, and it seems every bike tyre repair kit I've ever used requires this method so its gotta have some effect. The only problem I foresee is how small and fiddly the work would be. Doing multiple darts could get quite time-consuming.
    Psykka
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    Post  Psykka Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:44 am

    Jimeth wrote:
    inf0rm3r wrote:The problem is glueing a porous surface to a non-porous i.e Foam to Metal, Foam to plastic. I'll have to look around for a cheap option to do this. Epoxy does but it is rather expensive, unless in bucket form where I have seen it pretty cheap.
    Could that problem be resolved by roughing the non-porous surface up with sandpaper or something similar? 'Twould eliminate the need for stronger (more expensive) adhesives if it worked, and it seems every bike tyre repair kit I've ever used requires this method so its gotta have some effect. The only problem I foresee is how small and fiddly the work would be. Doing multiple darts could get quite time-consuming.

    Some sort of rig could easily be made out of wood for example to tightly hold a large number of darts while you hit the top with sandpaper perhaps?


    Depending on cost I'd be quiet interested in placing an order for some of this foam once you have it.
    I have quick easy access to a store that stocks a large array of brass tubes so I could potentially create quite a number of breaches to fit this foam for the Melbourne area. Having a uniform standard of dart for our wars would be pretty awesome.

    This of course does depend on how much it will cost as I don't have a huge amount of cash to burn.


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    Post  Darth Lai Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:23 pm

    Informer - will you actually be doing this? And if you do, will you still be selling your blue foam, or will this replace it?

    Thanks.
    killerbunny
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    Post  killerbunny Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:15 pm

    @ imform3r: What would go on the end of this foam?
    Are you still looking at ordering tips, if so how would they work with rod foam?
    inf0rm3r
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    Post  inf0rm3r Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:39 pm

    I will be doing this and it won't replace the blue foam.

    I am working on tips, I just need the spare time to complete the drawings and detailed requirements and send off for quotations.

    The main cost involved in tips is the tooling of a master mold.
    killerbunny
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    Post  killerbunny Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:08 pm

    cool, tooling a master mould? The way we do it in flim and theatre land is using sculping or building something the same dimentions as your end product then casing it in plaster, latex or something. Then using that as the mould... If i could afford the stuff (maybe i could start with a small amount then work up) i could make them myself it's just a simple box mould if you use rod foam
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    Post  tank720 Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:36 pm

    If you did go along with this rod of foam i will certaintly buy some.

    Sponsored content


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