Alpha trooper woes

OK so I got mine yesterday and drilled out the air restrictor. Then I found out I had to put in padding on the plunger or alternately on the floor of the piston thing. All I had to on hand for padding were dr. scholes foot pads. It didn't work so well for the plunger so i put it on the floor of the piston hollow. Meanwhile I had to remove some of the lube from the inside of the piston and the outside of the plunger because i thought it would help with installation. Anyhow i put it all back together and discovered two annoying problems: cocking was impossible because the piston kept catching on the spring coils, and secondly, when I freed the piston by hand, and it slid forward when pushed by the spring, it did so very slowly.

I forgot to mention that i also removed the thing that prevents you from removing the mag when the gun was fully cocked. The result is not what people said it would be on various forums and on youtube, rather the result is that the mag just won't stay in at all. I'm on the verge of writing this gone off and wastefully just getting a new one and keeping it stock because it was pretty badass in stock form.

It always seems that this sort of thing only happens to me. People post very clear instructions online and i try to follow them and I end up with questions so obscure and noobish that nobody wants to answer them. Please be patient with me! Thank you for your help!

Okay, I'll start with this - I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this question, but I'm sure one of the mods/admins will gladly relocate it if necessary.

First off, you're much better off gluing a suitable sized washer to the rear of the plunger tube with epoxy adhesive. Padding always seems to get in the way of full travel of the plunger in my experience.

If the plunger tube is catching on the spring, then odds are it isn't aligned properly. Make sure the tabs of the tube seat properly in the slides on the inside of the shell.

It's pretty hard to tell what's wrong with the travel of the plunger, without a picture/s. I'd suggest removing the padding, and re-lubing the o-ring, and start again from there.

With half a wrap of e-tape around the plunger tube where the spring locates, AR's removed, and improved plunger seal, I'm ranging around 65 feet, angled from the hip. So, yeh , the AT is fairly decent with minimal modifications. And, at $29, it's a pretty good deal, especially when you also get the 18-round drum.

Hope this helps,

Hi,

This is common enough with the AT.

Did you fit a heavier spring?

It's very possible that your plunger padding is too thick, about 2mm is the limit for this model.

Some say not to use it, but I disagree, just not too thick.

There are 3 catches that modders remove in this one, but I only remove 2 of them, as one clicks the pump in the forward position when cocked.

If you haven't changed the spring, it's most likely the padding being too thick.

If you have changed it, it's possible you need to trim back some plastic inside the stock end of the housing.

All these things have been covered in this and other forums, so you'll be able to fine pictures.

The AT is my absolute favourite of the reverse plunger blasters.

I have several, and they are even better with a heavy spring, AR's removed and a Raider stock fitted.

Hope this helps.

Hey OzNerfNerd,

I tried to get the BT AT/Recon spring to fit in my AT, but it would never succesfully prime, without slamming the crap out of it. May I ask what spring you have used, as I've got 5 x AT's sitting here ready to be modded...

Hey Clunk,

I'm sitting here looking at a box of springs that will fit perfectly, as I carefully measured the guts of all the reverse plunger models when designing it.

I have ordered a special buffer as well, and as soon as they arrive (next week) I will have a spring kit listed on ebay permanently.

Cheers

Sweet mate,

I'll keep an eye on your listings.

Cheers,

thanks everyone. I'm glad there are solutions to this problem.

The only thing that is keeping me from reassembling the gun and returning it saying it was broken (i don't like lying but I'm kinda peeved) is this: the mag catch thing - the tutorials on youtube say to remove it. As I said, now the gun won't hold the magazine in no matter what. I snipped part of that thing so that i could get it off the plunger tube. It's all still in one piece. But since it is snipped I doubt it will still be usable, though i wanted to check with you all. If it isn't still usable, I'm gonna return this thing, replace it, and retry the modding without destroying anything. Is the mag thing salvageable?

What sort of lube should I use by the way?

The foot pad I put in there may be part of the problem but I don't see how because the difficulty is in the piston sliding forward as opposed to any other point in its travel. If it is advancing forward from a cocked position, it moves very slowly.

About padding/shock absorbing/armoring the floor of the piston, if I just have the washer in there, that wouldn't really cushion anything, amirite? There would still be trauma to the structure of the piston, yes? Is there any reason the padding I'm using wouldn't work? Would felt fabric work?

thanks again for your patience with my retarded questions. As I said in my intro on the "introduce yourself" forum, I'm a sculptor by trade and there are two kidns of sculptors - builders and carvers. As luck would have it, i'm the latter. So building things doesn't come easily to me.

Luckily nerf battling does come easily to me even at age 28.

if this can't get satisfactorily resolved, I'm just going to return the gun, get another one, keep it stock and paint it to look like it's out of a video game.

Um yeah, thank you again!

Mate,

There's two trains of thought with protecting the plunger from damage, after removing the AR's.

The first is plunger padding.

The second is reinforcing the outside of the plunger tube.

When it breaks, the plunger head bust out through the end of the tube. By attaching the washer, you strengthen the joint.

Virtually, it boils down to either you want to cushion the impact, or bullet-proof the tube. Both methods have their pro's and cons.

Use some form of silicon for lube. Search the forum's, there's a heap of info out there, more than I'm willing to get in to after being awake for 21 hrs straight.

Epoxy adhesive/putty is your best friend. You should be able to repair the latch that you cut off the plunger.

Cheers,

clunk07 wrote:Mate,

There's two trains of thought with protecting the plunger from damage, after removing the AR's.

The first is plunger padding.

The second is reinforcing the outside of the plunger tube.

When it breaks, the plunger head bust out through the end of the tube. By attaching the washer, you strengthen the joint.

Virtually, it boils down to either you want to cushion the impact, or bullet-proof the tube. Both methods have their pro's and cons.

Use some form of silicon for lube. Search the forum's, there's a heap of info out there, more than I'm willing to get in to after being awake for 21 hrs straight.

Epoxy adhesive/putty is your best friend. You should be able to repair the latch that you cut off the plunger.

Cheers,

thank you for your time. I hope you sleep well.

Ok I need some linguistic help here: The thing with the gasket on it, which is basically what takes the dart out of hte magazine and loads it in the barrel, whcih has a gasket on the back end, is the plunger? The thing that fits over it and pushes the air down that tube and the barrel, which I call the piston, is the plunger tube? or did i get those backwards?

I think for now I am more in favor of padding because I don't like things slapping against each other. I don't like the noise and I imagine eventually it would kill the gun in unforeseen ways years from now.

So is it OK that i just did the lazy thing and padded the floor of the piston/plunger whatever thing? I mean its that surface hitting the end of the tube with the gasket on it. I've seen people put a ring of padding on the end of the tube with the gasket on it but i found that too difficult to fabricate with what i've got here so I just padded the floor of the piston thing with a disk made of the foot pad, which i think is 2mm thick when uncompressed, though half of its thickness compresses stupidly easily (the other half being softish rubber). It isn't glued in right now because i just wanted to try it out. Can't imagine that's a problem.

I will now go hunting around the forum for pics and things but if you could clarify for me whether or not I'm on the right track, that would be great.


Please pardon the crappy writing style. I'm a doctor not a brick-layer, Jim!

Man, I reckon the plunger tube's moving so slowly because it has no lubrication on it. That's not gasket, by the way, it's an o-ring. You need to lubricate it for it to move quickly and powerfully = more air moved faster = more power = better range.

Look up some internals guides man, it'll help other people know what you're talking about when you're explaining things.

Hope that helped!
Cody

Yeh, I call the piece with the o-ring the plunger.

The unit that the spring sits on is the plunger tube. This is the piece that slides back, and is propelled forward when the trigger is squeezed.

There's no issues with using padding inside the tube, just ensure it's not too thick, like Oznerfnerd mentioned. As I said earlier, there's 2 trains of thought on which is best... I've done both, but had more success with the washer and epoxy.

clunk07 wrote:Yeh, I call the piece with the o-ring the plunger.

The unit that the spring sits on is the plunger tube. This is the piece that slides back, and is propelled forward when the trigger is squeezed.

There's no issues with using padding inside the tube, just ensure it's not too thick, like Oznerfnerd mentioned. As I said earlier, there's 2 trains of thought on which is best... I've done both, but had more success with the washer and epoxy.

Thank you. That clarifies everything.

I tried searching Oznerf for "padding, washer, epoxy" and a variety of other relevant words and got zero hits. Could you tell me the following:

you say the washer/epoxy is better. Why is it better? Is there any harm to using both padding and a washer? If I'm using the washer and padding, I suppose that means i can afford to use thin padding, just thick enough to make the impact quieter, yes?

I'm trying to find pics of the washer on the outside thing and can't so far. Can you help?

about lube, I have an RC boat and for it, I was told by the venerable RCGroups forums to get blue lithium grease to lube the prop shafts, which it does exceptionally well. Is silicone better?

Meanwhile:


My otherwise wonderful girlfriend suggested I use vaseline or even, get this, Pam Cooking Spray, which you apply to a pan so that your food doesn't stick when you're cooking it. I think its got something akin to margarine in it. And, thankfully, we have none in house. I calmly smiled and said "I love you but leave the modding to me. Shooting me in the head is your job. Making the guns better is mine -" "and the Australians on that message board!" "yes dear, and not the job of cooking spray."

Side question: why are there fewer modded Alpha Troopers in existence, than, say, Recons? I've prowled some other forums and there are loads more recon mods out there than AT's. The Recon appears to be very easy to mod but I keep hearing its an inferior gun, and after shooting both, I have to agree (take that, girlfriend!) Is it because the thing is only sold at Target stores? Is it because it costs more? here in the US, it doesn't. Is it because its harder to work on? Are people content with Ford Mustangs and Chevy Camaros when they could be driving Mitsubishi Evo's with torque vectoring, for around the same price (assuming the other two are somewhat higher end models)? Whats the deal?

Thanks again. You are gradually restoring hope over here with your input.

I use a lithium based lube, and it's worked fine in the majority of my guns. On a side note, lithium greases have been deemed Nerf safe by the Nerfhaven thread pertaining to them. So you should be relatively safe using the Tamiya stuff. So yeah, go ahead and use it :D. You could also try silicone based personal lube, which works incredibly well, as found out by boosted6.

And in terms of the recon? It's mainly because it's a cheap gun that people all bought when it first came out because it looked cool. It wasn't until we discovered that that tiny reverse plunger can only propel a dart so far that we moved on; the most people have been able to get out of their recons is below 20m/60' consistently. It's also because recons have been out since late 07/early 08 and alpha troopers have only been out since the end of last year.
Alpha troopers are essentially better engineered recons.

Note that the Recon (2008 release) has been around longer than the Alpha Trooper (2010 release).
This gives plenty of time for people to mess around with the gun, hence, there are more mods available.

The Recon is also much easier to modify due to its modularity, and placement of operating parts.
Perhaps, the Recon was considered a disappointment, that people had the will to find ways to improve it.
Whereas, more people seem to be content with the Alpha Trooper's performance.

[EDIT: Ah, Bacara beat me to it.]

personal lube?! Well i suppose it makes sense. I suppose I could kill...three birds... with one stone with that one. Don't ask.

Back to the G-rated stuff, actually I bet that stuff really would kill a bird. Meanwhile, Is the AT the only one with faux-rifling grooves in the barrel? I was really impressed with that addition.

about that magazine catch thing, would CA aka Krazy glue and a bit of piano wire be enough to fix it or should i use epoxy instead? Should i even bother reinstalling it?

spacephrawg wrote:Is the AT the only one with faux-rifling grooves in the barrel? I was really impressed with that addition.

Most guns that have the entire foam dart travelling through the barrel will have these, except the Maverick.

They serve a functional purpose.
This reduces the possible surface area of the dart being able to be in contact with the barrel surface, reducing the amount of friction imposed.

spacephrawg wrote:
about that magazine catch thing, would CA aka Krazy glue and a bit of piano wire be enough to fix it or should i use epoxy instead? Should i even bother reinstalling it?

Cyano-acrylate glue and Krazy glue aren't the same. I'd use epoxy to be on the safe side. Alternatively, I've modded 3 x AT's, and had no issues with removing that catch/lock on any of them.

Check out this http://www.oznerf.com/t2646-alpha-trooper-spring-mod post.

Check out Clunks picture with the arrows pointing to the 3 parts to remove.

I personally don't remove the middle one, but that's just personal preference.

Did you fit an aftermarket spring??

You shouldn't have had to cut anything off the plunger or plunger tube, so that may well have caused a problem.

Please check you have the plunger tube aligned correctly as it has a piece that slides in a track in the housing beneath it.

This could be the cause of your slow return (or no lube, or an aftermarket spring that is too tight on the plunger tube).

With regards to padding or reinforcing the plunger tube, why not do both?

Hope this helps.

Ah, I'd forgotten all about that. From when I was a complete noob!!

My second ever mod, and destroyed slam-fire. At least I've moved forward from there!! haha

Don't be so quick to shut your girlfriend down. I've used Homebrand Spray and Cook and it works a treat, but only works for a short while. I haven't noticed any damage to anything, especially the o-ring, and I imagine that's because this stuff is food grade, so it's not going to hurt anything, or be strong enough to degrade rubber or plastic. Only down side, I had 100% seal with it for like, five shots. After 15-20, seal was reduced to maybe 15%.

Cody

Mozart wrote:Don't be so quick to shut your girlfriend down. I've used Homebrand Spray and Cook and it works a treat, but only works for a short while. I haven't noticed any damage to anything, especially the o-ring, and I imagine that's because this stuff is food grade, so it's not going to hurt anything, or be strong enough to degrade rubber or plastic. Only down side, I had 100% seal with it for like, five shots. After 15-20, seal was reduced to maybe 15%.

Cody

Thanks for that. However now my girlfriend is saying "well, [Spacephrawg], the gun cost you 20 plus tax. To fix this one, you'll need to buy a bag of washers because they don't sell just one, some epoxy, and a tube of silly-cone. It would be cheaper to bike back to the store and return the stricken gun and exchange it for a working one! Don't waste money!" Oh she's just full of good ideas ain't she? Oy. There is still a part of me that wants to do what she suggests but It's just a small part.

Meanwhile she has just a bit of a point re: cost of the fixing things. The bill might get as high as 20 USD, same as the gun. Sure I'd use the stuff for loads of other things, but that's speculative at the moment.

back to the gun, tomorrow I will attempt to reassemble it with parts correctly aligned. I will report back in at least 15hrs. Wish me luck.

Well, as with Clunk's, the next Longshot I'll be doing will cost $45 dollars to buy, then another hundred or so on top of that to modify. All part of the hobby, bro. The amount I've spent on this hobby is stupid.

Mozart wrote:I've used Homebrand Spray and Cook and it works a treat, but only works for a short while. I haven't noticed any damage to anything, especially the o-ring, and I imagine that's because this stuff is food grade, so it's not going to hurt anything, or be strong enough to degrade rubber or plastic.

Be careful though.
I had a saucepan of vegetable oil used for frying.
The thin layer of oil that splashed onto the rim, glued the lid to the saucepan, when it was left for a month, as it gummed up.
Cooking oil turns nasty when oxidised (exposed to air) for prolonged periods of time, as it breaks down.

Mozart wrote:The amount I've spent on this hobby is stupid.

It's not that bad, is it?
I mean there are plenty of other hobbies out there that are much worse to the hip pocket...
( ﾟ 3ﾟ) ~♪

I got a package from Japan during the week and another 2 are in transit. And another is going to be posted sometime next week...
May is a terrible month for my wallet with the plenty of quality stuff released.

Yeah, fair call, although this stuff is a cooking oil thug. I'll read the can when I get home.

Hahaa, you're right man, it's not that bad in comparison, but I reckon I would have fixed my car, put it over the pits and had it registered and even put new tires and started on new interior with that amount of money.

Yes mate,

It all costs money, that's for sure.

But we are taking childrens toys and turning them into items that please people up to 40 (and over).

I wouldn't price it on what the toy cost, but on what value you put on the finished item.

ie, what it's worth to you in the end.

oznerfnerd wrote:Yes mate,

It all costs money, that's for sure.

But we are taking childrens toys and turning them into items that please people up to 40 (and over).

I wouldn't price it on what the toy cost, but on what value you put on the finished item.

ie, what it's worth to you in the end.

Yeh, much more rewarding than gambling or drinking...

But you can combine the 3. Mav with one round and Wild Turkey. Nerf, gambling and drinking in one hit.
On topicish, spacing your purchases out helps alot with the cost side
Veg oil just spells bad news to me and as far as food grade lubes go I started off using Inox MX3 food grade grease and it caused some pretty epic o'ring swelling.

Clunk, you've got it exactly straight. I like drinking a bit, I'm actually drinking with a lady friend of mi e tonight, but this hobby is way more fun than being an alcoholic or a gambling addict. I really don't see how people get addicted to that shit..

Trust me, it's not hard. Both can become quite addictive...

clunk07 wrote:Trust me, it's not hard. Both can become quite addictive...

I think I'll stick with nerf. The best times I'v ever had save for one, were sober. Considering my mods are only to accommodate the removal of the air restrictor, I think I should be OK.

About the cost thing, you're talking to someone who bought an RC boat for above 200 USD and then spent most of a grand on upgrades. The only regret I have is I had to move away from the lake. Fortunately, nerf guns don't require a lake. If my girlfriend has any more to say about the cost, I think I'll tell her to stick an ice cube in her nose, though knowing her, she'll try to stick one in mine. A la amour!

One question though - with the mods including the removal of the Air restrictor, have I doomed the gun to a shorter operational life?

They're a plastic toy gun - life expectancy is never going to be good. Reinforce what you can, and trust me, you're going to want to get some epoxy adhesive, epoxy putty and some JB weld, to name a few products, if you're going to mod blasters.

Most of this stuff is relatively inexpensive, and you don't need to get it all at once. Things break, fix what you can. Pad the plunger/reinforce the tube, and you've done all that you can.

It's not going to break overnight, and avoid dry-firing will increase the longevity of your equipment.

Cheers,

clunk07 wrote:They're a plastic toy gun - life expectancy is never going to be good. Reinforce what you can, and trust me, you're going to want to get some epoxy adhesive, epoxy putty and some JB weld, to name a few products, if you're going to mod blasters.

Most of this stuff is relatively inexpensive, and you don't need to get it all at once. Things break, fix what you can. Pad the plunger/reinforce the tube, and you've done all that you can.

It's not going to break overnight, and avoid dry-firing will increase the longevity of your equipment.

Cheers,

aw nuts. I expect those things would be good to have on hand even if i return the gun and exchange it for a new one which I'd never mod, yes?

Well, if you're not going to mod any blaster's, you won't need any of it really. But, you'll get the bug, and modify blaster's eventually. Everyone makes a few mistakes on their first couple projects.

Don't get discouraged with it all. Try modding a Maverick, it's a pretty good blaster to start with, and cheap as well.

First mod I did was remove the barrel post in my Nite Finder, hahaa. I'd say a NF over a Maverick, slightly cheaper and better performance increase. NFs are wicked fun.

YEp, I made a mistake on my Long Strike. Cut the barrel in the wrong place to remove the air restrictor and ruined it. By the way, that gun is a c*** to put back together.

Cody

Thanks for the input. Every pharmacy with a toy isle around here seems to be swimming in night finders, all for around 10USD. Well alright then. I'll return the gun, get one anew and keep it stock, save for painting it. It was pretty epic stock.

Its all really embarrassing. I can just see my future threads on this forum. "yeah check out my Alpha Trooper! sure looks pretty doesn't it." The forum replies: "cool - did you modify the internals?" me: "uh...no?" and then everyone loses interest.

Side note: while my gf and i have had the usual trouble with streamlined darts in the Recon, they shot straightish with the Alpha Trooper. They even whistled for me. Maybe I'm just lucky?