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SnowDragon
taerkitty
6 posters

    Nut Head Darts

    taerkitty
    taerkitty


    Posts : 54
    Join date : 2011-03-09
    Age : 54
    Location : Redmond, WA, USA

    Nut Head Darts Empty Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:50 pm

    Nut Head Darts NutheadStreamline

    This was a sucker (or maybe tagger) that lost its head due to the glue getting old and yellowed.

    The head is cast from a mold made out of silicone putty of a 1/4" acorn nut. The mold looks like this:

    Nut Head Darts SiliconeMoldSeparate

    The dart head is metal-free. It is 100% hot glue. I normally make these as stefans and not stock-foam conversions.

    Nut Head Darts SiliconeMoldDarts2

    However, I'm interested in trying to make dart heads that work in stock blasters as well. To that end, I joined this site hoping to buy some of inf0rm3r's blue tubular foam. In the meanwhile, I figured I'd share what I was up to.

    Thoughts/comments/criticisms/questions welcome.
    SnowDragon
    SnowDragon


    Posts : 199
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    Age : 29
    Location : Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  SnowDragon Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:23 pm

    100% hot glue. Ouch.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure if it's all hot glue you might as well just freeze paintball pellets and fire those instead.
    taerkitty
    taerkitty


    Posts : 54
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    Age : 54
    Location : Redmond, WA, USA

    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:27 pm

    Nah. Ice has no give. Hot glue has some give. This is the same as if you had topped a streamline with a BB, then hot glue, or any of the non-slug stefans.

    That said, we're also working on alternate materials to increase the 'give' and decrease the objections due to assumed impact pain.
    SnowDragon
    SnowDragon


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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  SnowDragon Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:54 pm

    I stand corrected then.

    But I really don't see what's wrong with current stefans anyway. We'd be getting it a lot worse if we had airsoft hahaha.
    taerkitty
    taerkitty


    Posts : 54
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    Post  taerkitty Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:10 pm

    No, you're quite right - hot glue domes hurt from high powered blasters at close range. (In this case, a 4B shot to the hand at < 7m would probably cause me to swear.)

    Most stefans have some of the following issues:

    - Many have metal in them. They may be fully entombed in hot glue, but parents may still object to their children shooting (or, more accurately, being shot with) something that is metal.

    - Washers and felt are not cheap in the volumes we use. Here in the States, we have an online source called McMaster, which sells 500 felt discs for ~$5 USD, and 700+ #6 washers for ~$6 USD, so appx $0.02 per head. However, trying to buy them locally would cost more like $3 USD for 100 #6 washers and $5 for 100 felt discs. This increases the cost to $0.08 per head.

    - Glue domes are not easily formed in poor-quality foam. Poor-quality foam tends to melt easily, so it's tricky to place the weight in the foam, then form the dome, etc. It's possible, but frustrating for the beginning dart maker.

    - Glue domes are not consistent in size, shape or mass. Consistent heads, straight foam, and square cuts will lead to consistent darts.

    ===

    These have their own issues:

    - Silicone putty to form the mold is not easily found. Some craft stores have it, as do (I'm told) some hobby stores, namely model train shops.

    - These dart heads have very close sizing to CPVC, so they are absolutely unforgiving if the head is off-centred, or not straight.

    - The stem requires a hole be burned in the foam that is straight and centred, which is next to impossible.

    ===

    That said, I've taken to breaking off the stem and making my own by filling the hole in the (heat-resistant) foam with hot glue and adhering the head to that stem. Results are promising. As a result:

    - The dart maker need not constantly buy felt and washers - hot glue is much more easily sourced.

    - The darts are consistent in size, shape, and mass.

    - They are metal-free, alleviating one possible objection to our hobby.

    - They perform as well as most other domed darts I've tested, but are able to be made by beginning dart makers.
    SnowDragon
    SnowDragon


    Posts : 199
    Join date : 2010-08-22
    Age : 29
    Location : Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  SnowDragon Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:19 pm

    Although I'd still take full sized darts over half sized ones any day, if only so I don't have to modify my magazines/guns to take them.
    taerkitty
    taerkitty


    Posts : 54
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:01 pm

    Yes, hence my posting this dart head here. The dart is about 5mm too long for a standard CS-x magazine (so it also is too long for most wheelguns, such as the Mav or FF), but that's easily fixed by trimming the foam.

    Then, you have a Streamline-ish dart without the hole in the head, and with a better weight distribution.
    clunk07
    clunk07
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    Post  clunk07 Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:20 pm

    Have you considered using standard silicone (silastic in OZ, not sure what it would be in the US) instead of silicone putty. I'd imagine it would be identical in weight, and alot cheaper and easier to source...
    littlebro05
    littlebro05
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Nut Head Darts

    Post  littlebro05 Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 am

    taerkitty wrote:Yes, hence my posting this dart head here. The dart is about 5mm too long for a standard CS-x magazine (so it also is too long for most wheelguns, such as the Mav or FF), but that's easily fixed by trimming the foam.

    Then, you have a Streamline-ish dart without the hole in the head, and with a better weight distribution.

    I like you're alternative taerkitty. Here in Brisbane, Australia though we use snap caps. Yes... I still use 'metal washers' in my darts, however they are incased within the snap cap. If the snap cap comes off, the washers will come out and STAY INSIDE the snap cap, leaving it to be safe :).

    However, I like the fact that your dart heads look authentic :D.
    TheBradl3s
    TheBradl3s
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  TheBradl3s Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:10 am

    I Split this into a new topic, as it didnt need to be in the other one. If you want me to change the title, PM me. Unless you can, I cant remember.

    Anyway, ontopic: I saw these on the Haven and I liked them apart from their bulkyness other than that, they are a good alternative to silicone tips. and IMO they wouldnt hurt anymore than a regular hot glue dome dart.

    - Brad
    taerkitty
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:20 am

    Thanks! I didn't know if you wanted a separate topic or not.
    littlebro05
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    Post  littlebro05 Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:52 am

    taerkitty wrote:Thanks! I didn't know if you wanted a separate topic or not.

    Do you know what would of been cooler taerkitty. If you made the mould out of a streamline dart head :D.
    taerkitty
    taerkitty


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    Post  taerkitty Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:02 am

    You mean one of these:

    Nut Head Darts HotGlueStreamline

    That mold was flawed, but I am working on V 2.0 of that, actually.
    littlebro05
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    Post  littlebro05 Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:05 am

    Yeah I could see that the mould was abit flawed, but keep on working on it!

    I think you need to fill up the streamline with hot glue before you make the mould because the streamline tip is squishy... unless you did that already <,<.
    taerkitty
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:14 am

    Unfortunately, the streamline tip is also very melt-y. >_<

    I filled it up with 3 0.177" BBs. That mold was hurried, so it was messed up. I also had to fill in the hole.

    V 0.2 will be the same thing, but I have some gum drying across the hole right now. Hopefully, that will be enough to keep the putty from filling into it.

    We'll see tomorrow.
    abowden
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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  abowden Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:39 am

    Well, If you can make these work, I will be very pleased, it would be cheaper than silicone heads.
    taerkitty
    taerkitty


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    Nut Head Darts Empty Re: Nut Head Darts

    Post  taerkitty Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:17 am

    I've been a little busy.

    Firstly, at Sharvil06@NH's request, I made some stemless molds. They make sense, really - I break off the stems when I'm done anyhow, because I can't melt a straight and centered enough hole in the foam.

    My take is that I like the automatic limit that the stem hole provides. I fill the mold until it overflows a bit, then I know I'm done. With the top open, I need to be more careful not to overfill. However, there is one advantage - I don't have to cut the mold. It's cup-shaped, and flexible, so there's no trouble removing the molded hot glue head.

    ===

    Second, I had some leftover putty from making these molds, so I made heads out of them. Fortunately, silicone putty doesn't form bonds with cured silicone putty. It does stick, but didn't ruin the existing molds.

    I found that it did bind very tightly to sticker backing paper, such as the brown slick paper that McMaster felt discs are sold.

    They formed very nicely, and seem to have a decent mass. If anything, they feel heavier than hot glue domes. They have a lot more give, being rubber. In fact, they bounce. There's only one problem: being silicone rubber, NOTHING STICKS TO THEM.

    No pics because they look like normal nutheads, just purple.

    ===

    Third, I did mention I had leftover putty, right? Does this shape look familiar?

    Nut Head Darts MoldedStreamlineHead

    Yes, it even has the stupid little air hole. (I'll take a pair of nips to it later.)

    ===

    On the subject of streamlines, someone asked me if these heads would work in stock blasters. Well, the heads are a bit longer than stock streamline heads, but if you trim 1/4" off the foam, it works great.

    Nut Head Darts NutheadStreamline-2

    However, I don't have any decent CS-x blasters, so I can't say how well they fire. They seem to perform about as well as stock foam, so I'm guessing a modded LongShot will be able to make them really scream.

    littlebro05
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    Post  littlebro05 Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:21 am

    Now you wait for those silicone tips to come in and cheap darts here we come.

    I think your mould might look more solid if you feel that hole with hot glue. Just so it's a solid piece of tip compared too the nut head ones.

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