modding a longshot

I'm going to mod my longshot this week by replacing the spring, is there anything else i should do? how would you reinforce the bolt sled? I'm probably gonna do a white tiger camo paint job on it to. Any tips would be appreciated

it depends on what spring you are replacing or adding it with.you should also take out the air restrictor and some of the locks

yeah, im gonna try a c836 spring. But which locks do you remove?

thanks alot phuon, ill use that advice, about to start the modding

Do the brass breach and barrel mod. That's what I'm doing.

Im pretty sure he means an angel breach.

Actually the SG nerf one has LESS of a sealing surface than the angel breech (as it opens so far back) along with there being more machining to the brass (ie you have to cut a halfpipe in the bolt too), If you've worked with brass much before you'd know that any machining like this will alter its shape slightly through drag from the tooling, pressure exerted when clamping it down to machine etc and that halfpipes generally do not keep their round shape as well... For these reasons, along with a poor dart/barrel fit, the Angel Breech is superior to SG's breech. I have made both.

Aj

So i should do an angel breach?

-Aj- wrote:Actually the SG nerf one has LESS of a sealing surface than the angel breech (as it opens so far back) along with there being more machining to the brass (ie you have to cut a halfpipe in the bolt too), If you've worked with brass much before you'd know that any machining like this will alter its shape slightly through drag from the tooling, pressure exerted when clamping it down to machine etc and that halfpipes generally do not keep their round shape as well... For these reasons, along with a poor dart/barrel fit, the Angel Breech is superior to SG's breech. I have made both.

Aj

Well, just to clarify... in terms of an air-tight seal, the brass breech design i posted up is as air-tight as an angel breech, there is no real need to sleeve the 19/32" bolt section so far over the 9/16" barrel. As long as the join is air-tight, the air flow efficiency is the same.

It is true that there is abit more work to do with my particular brass breech design, but cutting longer half-pipes so that it can fire normal length foam darts can be very useful for flexibility in dart choice (otherwise players will only be confined to being only able to use shorter stefans).

In addition, the half-pipe in the brass bolt section is important because all of the previous angel breech style small bolt nub attachment points have not been strong enough to withstand 14kg load (and above) aftermarket springs. The larger adhesive contact area really makes a huge difference for a strong and permanent bolt attachment hold on the brass bolt.

Also, don't clamp the brass tubes, the brass tubes are quite soft and can get out of shape with enough lateral force put into it. Cutting half-pipes just requires holding a dremel with cutting wheel and slowly cutting the half pipe. Its alot easier to cut nice angles too.

On the other hand, the brass is also soft enough that modders can adjust the fit of the brass barrel and brass bolt by simply pressing or bending the half-pipes into the required shape for a good fit. Thats how most brass breeches are tweaked for smooth movements and chambering.

Still, how well a brass breeched longshot works is up to the maker, so it all depends on the modding process and accurate positioning of the parts.

Just giving my suggestions... 'cos i've "sacrificed" many Longshots and seen many badly breeched longshots gone to waste, to finally arrive at the design that i posted up.

EDIT: phuonguyen posted a similiar explaination too... haha, just spotted it.

Yup, the main issue i faced with the original angel breech design was the small attachment point contact area, i still have a few modded longshots with that design sitting on my shelves fitted only with stock springs because they cannot take the stress of stronger springs.

With the bolt half-pipe design and its much larger adhesive contact area, the brass breech system works perfectly. I currently use custom 21kg load springs in my brass breeched Longshots and they have been holding well for many games.

Btw, on the subject of clip loading, clips have to be loaded into brass breeched longshots when the breech is closed. If the breech is open, its almost impossible to load a clip properly 'cos the halfpipes will block the clip's feed lips.

SG I did not mean to offend you if I did, what I didn't mention is that your method of attaching the bolt nub IS incredibly more effective than FA24's design, and that you really succeeded there, however truth be told my main issue with the breech you designed is not the sealing surface but rather the dart barrel fit, or even the streamlines themselves. 9/16th with tightening rings is probably about as good as it's going to get with streamlines, because the length of the dart means there is a lot of friction while sliding down a 17/32 barrel, however neither is really optimal, I was only able to get high 70's using streamlines or converted streamlines out of the longshot I constructed with your breech design, and this is with a heavy aftermarket spring.

The 9/16th barrel with T rings is not recommended for Australian Modders as it does not fit any ammo really well - too tight for 13mm FBR, and then it has the same problems as it does with streamlines when using informers foam.

For australian modders I would reccomend using a 17/32 angel breech with NO tightening rings if using informers foam (I'd reccomend max length of 50mm for the darts) or a 9/16th without tightening rings (or very very light ones) for 13mm FBR

Aj

No worries Aj, no offence taken.

Sorry if my posted reply came across like that too, 'cos i was just clarifying some details about my brass breech design and how i came about to it.

My design is just a slight variation of the angel breech, as the overall working principles are still the same.

I definitely agree with you on the difficulty in getting the ideal foam dart fit in brass barrels.

All things equal (ie. air-tight brass breech, good o-ring plunger seal etc), the key to optimising power and range in a brass breeched Longshot is definitely the fit of the foam dart in the barrel.

I also get only 70+ ft range when i test my brass breeched Longshots with streamline darts, i agree that streamline darts are way too narrow for 9/16" brass barrels. Once they get past the tightening rings, the air pressure from the plunger simply "leaks" past the narrower streamline dart as it moves through the barrel, hence creating inefficient air flow and resulting in reduced range.

I've seen users wrap layers of tape around their streamline darts to thicken them, and although some have reported improvements, the results are rather mixed. As such, i generally don't use streamline darts with my brass breeched Longshots.

To get optimal performance with 9/16" brass barrels, i tested many different dart and stefan designs, and eventually found the right fit based on foam darts converted from 3rd-party foam darts from the SDL brand (Avaliable from a few retailers in SG).

Interestingly, the SDL foam bodies are a perfect fit for 9/16" brass barrels. They are just slightly wider than streamline darts, so even without tightening rings, they can fit just right in the barrel. Not too tight and not too loose. The dart to barrel seal is so good that when its fired, the sound of the shot is a nicely muted "ping" sound (instead of a loud "crack" sound). These are the kind of dart fit that allow brass breeched Longshots to achieve optimal 100+ ft ranges.

Here is a comparison photo of the converted SDL darts (left side) versus a streamline dart (middle), notice the SDL foam is slightly fatter.



The above photo shows different variations of some darts i use, the silver duct tape at the tips are for additional dart reinforcement and slightly narrowed to enable smoother chambering, and the foam padding at the tips help cushion impacts to prevent welts at close range.

I know its tough to get the exact same kind of foam due to country specific availability, so my above example is just to share how dart fit optimises power and range.

Anyways as you mentioned, other than testing with various foam darts, modders can definitely also re-adjust their breech configurations (ie. use 17/32" brass barrels and 9/16" brass bolts instead) to adapt to foam darts which work better with narrower barrels.

It's widely known that springers favour tighter fits than airguns, this is nothing new. When referring to an angel breech I was more meaning the half-pipe and bolt design, as this is the only real point in which the two differ. That is a different issue to dart fit, which is universal across all breech designs as it depends on the brass used along with the darts used.

On the subject of dart fit tightening rings are not needed in a 17/32 a breech, informer's or stock foam is already a decent 'springer' fit in this material.

9/16th breeches would not neet tightening rings for 13mm FBR either, if you were dead set on it 1-2 light ones may be appropriate.

When dealing with creating higher pressure in springers barrel length is also super important, as to create significant pressure the dart needs to be tight, hence if the barrel is too long then there will be significant velocity loss due to the drag in the barrel after the pressure has somewhat equalised.

Your theory is excellent however you'll find in some practical applications the optimal settings do not deliver the results you'd expect, or sometimes even make a difference, due mostly to the highly variable nature of the projectiles we're launching

Aj

Well, from my experience, streamlines also tend to vary quite a fair bit in foam consistency and factory build quality too, even within the same pack of darts.

They are fine for stock blasters, but once used in more powerful modded blasters they usually start to become highly inaccurate, swerving left and right and spiraling wildly off target. It's mainly due to the weight balance, that's why most modders move on to customizing darts and stefans to better match their modded blasters.

Every blaster is different, so it's just a matter of testing various dart designs to get the proper dart fit and weight balance for the best performance and accuracy possible from each specific blaster.

it's finally finished!
it took four days but its done!
now to use it on someone...

What mods did you do to it? And what are the ranges?

Hey SGnerf,

Have you used the Ferdelance Darts they have for sale at Black tactical, if you have, what are they like?

Moonsword,

Yup, i tested out the "Fer Der Lance" (FDL) foam darts when they were ready a month ago.

They are factory-made darts that are designed by SixShot at the NerfSG forum and contracted to a factory to be produced. His design was a culmination of months of local testing and development, with the intention to create packaged foam darts which can provide more consistant accuracy (better balance than streamlines) and safe impact cushioning (dense but soft foam tip) straight out of the pack, and compatible with all Nerf blasters.

I posted up a detailed test review on it at the NerfSG forum, its really wordy so i wouldn't repeat it here. Check out the link to my detailed review on the FDL darts:

http://nerfsg.freeforums.org/fer-der-lance-foam-darts-review-t1592.html

Overall, i'd say the FDL dart achieves its goal of more consistant accuracy, especially in modded blasters, due to its better weight balance.

Dart body fit is slightly loose for 9/16" brass barrels, but the foam tips are slightly wider and create a perfect fit when chambered, so thats where the essential dart seal is.

Range performance depends on blaster power and seems to be close to, or on par with most properly calibrated foam darts and stefans (+/- few ft).

phuonguyen wrote:I think that that could be overcome by having a thinner halfpipe, which would allow the clip lips to pass them...

phuonguyen,

I've made a brass barrel with your idea of a thinner half-pipe, and you'll be glad to know... it works!

Check out my mod update of it:

http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/07/nerf-longshot-brass-breech-mod-update.html

Credits to you for the idea.

phuonguyen wrote:To increase the structural strength of the bolt, you can have larger wings before and after the actual length of the clip lips themselves. So you can have the full half pipe 15mm from the front and back, leaving the quarter pipe in the middle 45mm.

Thats a good idea for the bolt side quarter-pipe too... it'll require some additional shaping of the brass bolt with a Dremel, but i think your end result will look quite cool.